Why isn't O Scale 2-Rail more popular with model railroaders?

[Chris Webster]

Because it is too hard - duh!


[Sorry, Bob's "Banned" thread caused me to look at NK and I saw the 100+ post thread in which nobody is willing to state the obvious.]

[ScaleCraft]

Klambake doessn't push it any more. No articles in lord knows how long (and I just see an MR on occasion any more).
If it's not there, millennials think it's "not supported".

[Rufus T. Firefly]

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[bob turner]

This sort of thing always reminds me of the proselytizers. I am rather happy to be in a fairly obscure branch of the hobby.

[bob turner]

Oh - me! Me! I know! It is because we are using the wrong track gauge!

[Rufus T. Firefly]

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[sarge]

I saw that huge stream of effluvia.

Its very simple. You have two choices in O Scale if one ignores the collectors.

1) O as a craftsman's scale where people go who enjoy building models, the "railroad modeller". It is "hard" for most mainstream hobbiests.

2) If they are not builders, they then look at O scale RTR models produced for the buyer to run, the "model railroader". Here, the three-rail baggage we carry becomes unattractive. Because of the shotgun wedding of O scale and three-rail back in the 90s, any product made today is clunky in execution compared to the equivalent in HO or N. HO performs better than RTR O Scale and N is dam close. Why? Because three railers demand toy-like robustness at the expense of model-like fidelity.

The problem is simply what little product is made simply doesn't compare with the likes of Bowser or Broadway, the cars have all the detail finesse of blue-box Athearn compared to the magnificent offerings in the two mainstream gauges, and who would choose the big clunky thing with a list of features on the box that includes the word "durable"?

In short, HO RTR are better models than O RTR. N RTR are as well. If you want good models in O with any level of finesse like the smaller scales, see number 1 above. If you want fidelity and performance out of the box, you'll look favourably at HO and N. Most of these people want the latter, so they choose HO and N. The more make that simple value judgement, the larger the marketplace for really nice HO and N, the more product they get, the better that choice of HO or N becomes if you aren't a builder. This isn't a difficult question.

If either I couldn't build models or didn't enjoy building models, I wouldn't be in this scale. Would you?

[86TA355SR]

This subject came up on a different forum I visit, not OGR.

Turns out, some folks are quite happy being ignorant about their perception/rumors vs reality. That can be said for other things in life too.

[Chris Webster]

Because it is too hard - duh!

Except it isn't.....

There are now so many "plug and play" products in the other scales that modelers can build relatively complex layouts by simply unboxing stuff. The track (Kato Unitrack, Bachmann EZ-Trak, etc) and switches snap together, the rolling stock comes factory equipped with DCC, sound and Kadee couplers, so all you have to do is unbox it and place it on the track. You can buy signals and switches with the electronics built in - just plug and play and program. There are also sorts of incredibly innovative scenic products that make scenery much easier - just look at those strings of utility poles that come prewired, so you just unwind them and you have an instant row of utility poles with wires running atop them. You can buy already built structures and building that are also prewired - unbox and plug in and you have an instant building that is weathered and interior lit. Ditto for model vehicles - just unbox them.

You can't have that experience in 2-rail O because many of the products don't exist - there isn't any snap-together track (with an integrated ballast section) available in 2-rail. I don't think the lack of these products in 2-rail O is a bad thing; it's just that modelers in other scales who are used to unboxing plug-and-play products are going to find 2 rail O much harder to do.

the cars have all the detail finesse of blue-box Athearn

FWIW, Athearn discontinued its blue-box kits back in 2009. They still sell stuff made with the same tooling, it just all comes preassembled because that is what the market demands.

[sarge]

We're saying the same thing. Unless you like to build models, you can buy a far better selection of far better models in HO and N. Building models doesn't appeal to the majority because, yes, it is "harder" than buying them. I edited my previous post to perhaps clarify that.

What I don't get is the perceived need for evangelism like this is some sort of religion. There is this bit that says we need to tell people about O Scale, its our bounden duty to convert the hirailers or the smaller scale crowd, join with the OSK Cornet Band singing Shall we Gather by the Drill Press. Maybe its just me but evangelism makes me want to run away, threads about how we get others into O, the notion we need to "support our suppliers" by buying product I otherwise wouldn't give a second glance to and do so because its my duty to the scale, or donate time and treasure to some organisation or another to go forth with banners and tambourines to the multiscale shows and enlighten the unseeing. I'd be afraid of these people, if I'm honest.

I'm sorry, I just don't see the imperative. If O Scale (or model railroading as a whole, for that matter) cannot survive on its own merits, why is it on me to artificially sustain it as a matter of quasi-religion, any more than chariot racing or buggy whip collecting?

[Chris Rock]

It hasn't been very difficult for me, but I'm not too caught up in modeling yet, either. I'd like to do more someday.

This stuff is not rocket science but it does take some patience. The many ways to make it work have been written about for decades.

What is annoying to me is when people tell me what can't be done, but in fact I and others are doing exactly what they say can't be done. The reverse loop comes up all the time as being some sort of nightmare. Those type of myths repeated over and over again kept me away for a good long time, so yes, I'm pissed when I hear them repeated now.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

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[sarge]

If anyone wanted to inspire others, going door-to-door, banners and tables and such just never works. Zealots usually scare people.

You'll do more showing nice models on forums like this, blogging techniques or doing Youtube clinics and being "normal". People learn more out of curiosity than by having their space invaded, intellectually or physically.

Lastly, to all the guys who think modular layouts at shows is a great idea, take a lesson from the other side of the puddle where people finish the layout before they show it, and do so to a high standard. Nothing puts people off more than a bunch of planks with poorly finished models, no scenery or structures, and substandard toy crap running back and forth except perhaps throwing in a couple guys who need to stand a little closer to the razor and polish themselves up for the occasion before showing a layout in public.

Ultimately, what you show, how you present your craft and yourself is what appeals, not book thumping and hymn singing. I have more luck showing people this stuff and letting them decide for themselves.

As far as the myths, those that use them for an excuse to justify their decisions usually aren't satisfied with that decision. Its up to them, though. The evidence its all mythology is all around them, in the mags, on the blogs, on the fora, if they choose to open their eyes and see. Its on them, ignorance.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

The evidence its all mythology is all around them, in the mags, on the blogs, on the fora, if they choose to open their eyes and see. Its on them, ignorance.

They are in effect another breed of zealot....

[Chris Rock]

I went to a 2 rail show today and I think the sentiments were pretty much that 0 scalers just want to live in peace and focus on working on their railroads. Some of the comments I heard were "why would someone open the door and throw a grenade in" to "I'd rather have a completely awake colonoscopy than participate in that thread." The show was well attended, lively, friendly and truly a great gettogether. It could be a matter of misperception that there is a problem at all, I don't know. At the show I found out that several importers are bringing in items that I absolutely want and will order and this was a totally unexpected score. Behind the scenes reporting here on a great day for 0 scale.