Model Train Journal

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LIONEL-675-STE ... 2957426892


No chips. Right. Running boards, drivers, firebox, smokebox, discolored rods.
"Graded Like New (C8) with no excuses or marks on the loco".
No excuses?

For $412.50?
Last one I bought, at Knotts Berry Farm, was $15, still runs just fine.

The "grading" on toy trains is about as bad as i gets. I thought comic book grades were ridiculous but this is insane. "Like New"?????? A hole in the tender coal pile. The center driver looks like it's been soaking in oil?

There was a local yokel that kept trying to pass off a Texas Special as original with a C8 grade. Trucks were the wrong color for the year it was purported to be from (1954) and the shell paint job had a weird purple overcast. Like it was over coated with a transparent candy paint to try to restore the original high gloss finish.

chuck wrote:"Like New"?????? A hole in the tender coal pile.

Please elaborate on this.

Roy wrote:

chuck wrote:"Like New"?????? A hole in the tender coal pile.

Please elaborate on this.

Maybe this...

Thanks, Wayne. Been busy baking biscuits and other sundry culinary endeavors. I've been cooking.

Oval hole in coal pile is supposed to be there, altho I haven't seen one with edges that rough.
The paint/coating is peeling off the tender in several places. There is an odd red fleck in front bulkhead opening.

What is the purpose of the hole? I have an original tender shell and it doesn't have a hole in that location. There are even a few photo's of the tender sans the hole. MOST photo's on the bay do have a hole but it's usually smaller and offset to the right hand side. Service bulletins don't show a hole there either? This also looks like it was drilled/chewed out, not part of the original casting?

chuck wrote:What is the purpose of the hole?

The ones with the holes appear to be whistle tenders.

and...depends on vintage and style of whistle, so the vent is above the tone port.
I have seen some original non-whistle tender shells with no hole, some with the hole poorly drilled out when whistle added.
My 225E's 226E and metal tendered 726 and 736 have them.

The only hole on the shell I own is a rectangular hole on the "bulkhead" front facing what would be the locomotive's backhead.

Video on repairs to a whistling tender. I know it's not exactly the same but there are no holes in the coal pile:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFfUOGnaAOI

Skip ahead to 3:30 and 4:50 for come shots showing the shell. This one has "vents" along the step down from the coal bin to the top of the water tank.

I see a lot of pictures of tenders with holes seemingly randomly drilled into the coal pile. Different locations, different shapes, different sizes. I have a hard time understanding that this was "done at the factory". I am beginning to wonder if this was done by previous owners to "help" get the sound out? The original tenders appear to use the water pickup scoop?

I can photo a dozen of more in the basement with holes in various place. I have seen just the hole in the top of the coal retaining boards. I also have a couple I have filled the hole on top with epoxy and painted. Just because.

You never know with Lionel.
Here is a 224E, same tender, with a pair of holes, aft port:


I can produce a photo of a 225E, same tender, same vintage, most likely same whistle, with no holes.



Oval, forward stbd. Like I said, who knoweth.

Thanks. I saw a sh*tload of photo's of tenders mostly on E-Bay that had holes everywhere and maybe 5% that had no holes. I suspect the holes are "after market" modifications.

BTW, that 225E looks to be in great shape!

chuck wrote:What is the purpose of the hole?

webenda wrote:The ones with the holes appear to be whistle tenders.

You're both older than me, so I'm shocked you don't know this rather fundamental fact about postwar Lionel. On tenders with the fan-driven whistle, there were factory holes in the tender top, and on the frame. No, they weren't always on the coal pile. It depended on the model of tender. As for the plastic 2224/2466/6466/671 style tender under discussion, I think it was always in the same place on the coal pile. I don't know how it was made.

On the stamped sheet metal 221/1654/1655 tenders, there are slots stamped on the top, for the whistle air. On the similar Scout tenders, which never had whistles, there are no such slots.

Dave, that looks like a die-cast 2224 tender. The plastic version never had the steps. Does it have a separate coal pile, like the 2226/2426 tender?

Steps and shiny vertical handrails were a hallmark of cast tenders. I know about the vent holes, but like we're showing, same casting of shell and pile, they can have vents all over the place.

It's almost like the engineers at Lionel thought about it all year then redid the placement.

I cannot remember if the metal cast tenders all had the ports on the coal retaining boards.

From the holes in the die-cast 2224 tender, it looks like they reversed the whistle, when they went to the plastic version.