Hobo Jungle

[2railjon]

LOL, Rufus! How times have changed! My Dad regularly wore out belts and hair brush's on mine and my brothers butt's!!! My drill instructors never had to spank me in boot camp, it was all psychological dominance to get the job done. So I'll give that my best shot. I do have a stout leather belt on stand by, though.

[sarge]

Jon and I share the same situation; both of us are "old" men with 13 year-old sons.

I don't need my son's approval. My indicator that I'm remotely doing this right is he continues to actively seek and value mine.

[2railjon]

Well spoken, Sarge. But we're old "military" men. Therein lies the difference to breaking in the recruits with actions/consequences vs physical abuse.
Although I've seen the latter used by Gunny's as a last resort. And it aint pretty.

[rogruth]

Jon,

What did your son do to get detention? That is really a rhetorical question. Is it deserved? What would have happened to you in similar circumstances?

Before I retired from teaching in 1999, I heard a 6th grade student tell a teacher "If you touch me I'll have you arrested". The teacher called the office and they sent the resident police officer to the room. Teachers could not touch a student for any reason. If they are fighting, let them. They'll quite when they get tired.

My ex-son and law that is a SGTMAJ in the Army had to tell soldiers that if they spanked their kids or something similar they could/would be arrested.
I'm sure you know this. Not referring to your son but many kids today know that they can do almost anything with little consequence. I don't mean
that I advocate a return to some of these practices but kids have no fear except of other kids.

I believe the decline of the true family is the cause. I don't know the stats but the last I heard they weren't good. In my younger days an unmarried mother was not a role model. Today they seem to be almost equal to married mothers. I remember unwed teen-age mothers bringing their babies to school to
show off and teachers fawning over them. i thought this was wrong for a teacher that was supposed to be a model. I'm old fashioned.

Jon, I am not blaming you for anything but agreeing with Rufus and Sarge.

[2railjon]

Roger, the first incident was by his art teacher who was "pretty sure" it was my son who hollered something silly in the back of the class.
Detention.
Today's issue was another student who tried to trip my son in the hallway while changing classes. My son tripped him back. Both kids put on detention.
Not anything serious like smoking in the boys room or streaking nekked when I was in school.
But... gotta keep them in check.

[sarge]

<snip> Although I've seen the latter used by Gunny's as a last resort. And it aint pretty.

Not just the purview of the Corps. In my Army it was just a little "wall-to-wall counseling". Of course I would never...

[Mitch]

My Dad regularly wore out belts and hair brush's on mine and my brothers butt's!!!

My Dad's favorite saying was, "I'll cut your a$$ off with a belt!". Problem was, it wasn't just the a$$ that got it. Back, lower legs and thighs as he held us by one arm and we tried to pinwheel around him to avoid the lashes. One time my older brother and I went swimming at Buffalo Creek instead of doin' the chores we were 'sposed to, but Pap was home from work before we got back. He caught us on the front porch, (we lived in town that year), and laid into us with knuckles, after which we raced upstairs to our bedroom. Heard my Mom yellin' at him, "I'd rather you use a belt than hit them like that"! Then heard the "Old Man" say, "Goddammit, I will yet!" And up the stairs he comes, busts into the bedroom, and lays into us again. Gee, thanks Mom!
In Junior High, the female teachers sent you to the principals' office; the male teachers all had huge wooden paddles where they'ed have you come up front, face the class and bend over a desk. One swat or two, depending on the severity of the infraction. My 9th grade home room teacher was about 5'10", and about 2 1/2 feet wide. He looked like a refrigerator with a head, and he could swing a mean paddle. In high school, you went to the assistant principal's office. One time I went in, and the second he closed the door behind us, he slammed me off the wall and read me the riot act. I'm just so much the better person for having engaged in that!!!

[MurphOnMillerAve]

I wonder if it is true that hitters (those who got hit) become hitters (the new crop of people who now hit). (?)

[Rufus T. Firefly]

I wonder if it is true that hitters (those who got hit) become hitters (the new crop of people who now hit). (?)

Well, in your teachers professional existence you might already know the answer.

[aterry11]

Being one who was spared no rod, My parents were both 54 in 1966 when I was born, I remember being spanked not beaten at a young age and in later years it took a much larger transgression to obtain punitive reinforcement. My current situation revolves around the differences in upbringing between my Babies momma and myself. I practiced the spanking at an early age so as to avoid complete defiance. Now if I say do this or that, there is no quarrel if Babies momma is not there. This lead to parental squabbles between us I no longer live in the house I pay for and she is reaping what she has sown. I still have none of the disobedience problems, she created and now must deal with. My youngest son is 14 on Sat. and Sophia is 8 growing on 30. We have amazing discussions on just about everything. They know dad will go there if driven by there actions. All things will change. Son is at that age where I am the dumbest thing on 2 legs. This too shall pass. Nothing better than answering a question and having them not believe you. Then when someone who's opinion they value reiterates the same thing they get that quizzical head slanted sideways look..... Hey the old man aint so dumb after all. Love my Kids all of them they Try now if their mother would.

[Mitch]

aterry, wasn't it Twain that stated he'd left home when he was 17 'cause his father didn't know anything, and when he returned at age 22, he was surprised how much his father had learned in just 5 years!

[Rufus T. Firefly]

My youngest son is 14 on Sat. and Sophia is 8 growing on 30.

Had roughly the same spread in years with son being the oldest, too. Same story with the daughter - never could quite tell when the 6 year old or the 26 year old was going to respond.

Son is at that age where I am the dumbest thing on 2 legs. This too shall pass. Nothing better than answering a question and having them not believe you. Then when someone who's opinion they value reiterates the same thing they get that quizzical head slanted sideways look..... Hey the old man aint so dumb after all.

Son went through that phase really fast and learned early on that the parents knew a few things. Daughter is in grad school now - the parents are still as dumb as a bag of hammers..............until just as you state - she finds out from some other source we do know something.

Some change fast and some change slow. She'll still get up on the roof working and help out cutting firewood. A lot better grounded than the majority of her "associates".

[sarge]

I also grew up in the atmosphere of corporal punishment, one of the many duties my mother would pass off to dad ("Just wait 'til your Father gets home".) But, no. I'm not a practitioner of physical discipline in my house.

I tend to think the "hit become hitters" bit is a stereotype, and I will say that modern politically correct psycho-babblers aren't really replacing old stereotypes with enlightened thought, but rather with new stereotypes (anti-WASP or anti-male stereotypes being particularly popular).

I have never found the need to whack the boy, and (flying in the face of another stereotype in the process, that of the rigid authoritarian military guy) I find the leadership ethos of the military culture useful, things like leading by example, structure, consistency and fairness, praise in public/dam in private, clarity of expectation, applaud as quickly as you condemn, honesty, all those traits and practices that would have people trust you enough to follow you into danger.

Where I said before I don't need to earn my son's approval, just like my soldiers I do need to always earn his respect and his trust freely given. What makes a successful military leader (and not the stupid civilian stereotype of the strict authoritarian, for mere authoritarianism fails miserably in the military culture) has merit as an ethos for a father today (thankfully, or I'd be a miserable failure at it ).

[robert.]

I'll be 58 when my daughter is 13. I can only hope that i have patience when dealing with her school teachers. I don't see eye to eye with some liberal teachings used in our local schools.

[MurphOnMillerAve]

...and speaking of parenting, teaching, effective punishment, and effective education, and effective socialization of young minds, here's a snip-it from a local newspaper. If you'd like to verify it or read more, you can visit <northjersey.com> which was listed as a link in the article.

Tyson, who served three years in prison in the 1990s after being convicted of rape, said, 'I wasn't afraid of jail because all of my friends from the street were there.' Tyson said he 'became a more advanced criminal' through his various stints in jail, beginning with his first at the age of ten.

I found that remarkable but am not sure I should have.