Caboose Shipping Damage

[up148]

I had an unfortunate shipping experience last week on a NIB, factory painted, PSC SP Caboose. The young man was selling some of his Grandfathers trains he inherited and was not a train person, so he gave the PSC box to a UPS franchise store to box and ship. I mentioned to make sure the caboose was packed correctly, but didn't elaborate, so I guess as I'm as much to blame as anyone, I just thought a UPS store had more sense and at least knew the rules for packaging to ship by UPS.

The UPS store put it in the smallest box they could find and no packing material. The ends of the PSC box were against the outer box and only a few inches on either side. Horrible packing.

Anyway, the shock of shipping without proper packing knocked out most of the glazing, broke the soldered on walls for the cupola seating and bent some handrails. Handrails are straight now, but I have to re-solder the cupola walls and re-glaze the windows.

Questions:

(1) I have both a resistance soldering set and a Weller soldering station with adjustable heat settings and pencil tip probe available, but don't know which would be best in this situation so I don't burn the factory paint. And, I have limited experience using either type. Obviously, care and planning will be the key to success in this endeavor. Which type of soldering might work best in this application? I've reversed the cupola walls in the photo, so the solder goes under the angle.

(2) The glazing appears to be slide glass, not plastic, so I suppose I don't think I have to worry about blushing the edges of plastic windows from interaction with the glue...but I'm not sure. What glue is best for securing real glass?

The biggest issue will be reattaching the lower solder joints without burning the paint. I thought I would hold a wet paper towel against the outside of the caboose during soldering to work as a heat sink, but have no experience and wonder if there is something better. Fortunately there is a narrow angle running the length of the caboose to screw the floor/chassis in place, which gives an additional 3/16" of added space before the painted outer wall, but I doubt that would provide much insulation.

Looking for any and all suggestions. The only plus is now that the caboose is apart I can paint the interior.

Butch

[E7]

Butch,

First, sorry to hear of your models misadventure. Anything I have ever had shipped regardless of material, I always ask for it to be double boxed, with padding on all 6 sides of the inner box, and that the item be immobilized within the box. Some people can't figure out it's the same principle as wearing a seat belt in a car. I have sent different kinds of fragile stuff via most of the carriers, and it is the packing job that makes the difference. There are a pile of people who haven't got a clue how to pack stuff, even the "Pros"????

As for soldering and not damaging paint, from what I hear it is pretty much a crap shoot. You might want to contact a fellow by the name of Bill Lane, who is the 'owner' of the Yahoo 'Brass Collectors' List. He has a fair amount of experience doing that type of stuff. Bill is pretty personable, and I'm betting he will have some good suggestions. I am thinking your resistance unit is the best option. Hope things work out!

PS: Forgot to mention....Howard Zane (big time brass buff) uses Elmers glue for installing glazing. Not sure if he uses slides of plastic, but I'm guessing real glass.

Rich

[Rufus T. Firefly]

I just thought a UPS store had more sense

They have none at all

and at least knew the rules for packaging to ship by UPS.

I am unaware of there being any rules that might apply to a model train item; hazardous materials, yes. A brass train car - none at all.

The UPS store put it in the smallest box they could find and no packing material. The ends of the PSC box were against the outer box and only a few inches on either side. Horrible packing.

I suspect that they thought it was adequate and are simply ignorant of what should have been done/used. If the seller is not packing himself and is also not knowledgeable, then that's a recipe for disaster

You now know why no one should even let UPS pack anything for you nor for that matter even use UPS at all. They literally throw the boxes ontgo my porch and run away.

(2) The glazing appears to be slide glass, not plastic, so I suppose I don't think I have to worry about blushing the edges of plastic windows from interaction with the glue...but I'm not sure. What glue is best for securing real glass?

Strangely enough, I actually use Goo on at least 2 edges, 3 if possible. Others use Aleene's Tacky and others use Canopy Glue

I am surprised that the slide glass (or is it cover slip glass?) survived.

[CMorrill]

Resistance soldering unit will have the best chance of soldering without burning the paint because of the speed of heat application on the contact spot. BUT --- get some experience on practice pieces. Otherwise, I would suggest using epoxy for repair to save the paint.

I would not use CA for reattaching the window material. Otherwise any glue that drys clear should work.

Charlie

[ScaleCraft]

I just thought a UPS store had more sense

They have none at all
They do have a certain "sense"...to protect the payments for the CEO
s new Ferrari..

and at least knew the rules for packaging to ship by UPS.

There are rules. They are un-written, non-published, and change daily if not more often.

I am unaware of there being any rules that might apply to a model train item; hazardous materials, yes. A brass train car - none at all.

The UPS store put it in the smallest box they could find and no packing material. The ends of the PSC box were against the outer box and only a few inches on either side. Horrible packing.

I suspect that they thought it was adequate and are simply ignorant of what should have been done/used. If the seller is not packing himself and is also not knowledgeable, then that's a recipe for disaster
Doesn't matter one bit...IF you are trying to insure the item.

You now know why no one should even let UPS pack anything for you nor for that matter even use UPS at all. They literally throw the boxes onto my porch and run away.

Hopefully your experience is better. Pay for A) insurance, and B) packaging by a UPS store. C) Have damage occur in transit. D) Try to file a claim.
It is ALWAYS improper packaging, even if UPS did it. I know of no one who has ever gotten a claim paid by UPS, altho I am sure there are somewhere. I did hear of one where UPS put a forklift blade through a box with a big flatscreen TV set. UPS Insurance is a scam, on top of their 15 foot drop off the end of the conveyor.

(2) The glazing appears to be slide glass, not plastic, so I suppose I don't think I have to worry about blushing the edges of plastic windows from interaction with the glue...but I'm not sure. What glue is best for securing real glass?

Strangely enough, I actually use Goo on at least 2 edges, 3 if possible. Others use Aleene's Tacky and others use Canopy Glue

I am surprised that the slide glass (or is it cover slip glass?) survived.

[Tom Dempsey]

Yep

[E7]

Butch,

Another thought: If it was bought thru Ebay and or paid with Paypal, they have guarantees on purchases. Not sure if that includes shipping damage. Unless that caboose was really rare, maybe you could get a refund and just go after another???? Worth looking into, I think.

I would also raise H*ll with UPS. Sometimes if you sqwauk long and loud enough and do it to the right people, you will get results. It's a pain, but sometimes worth the effort.

Rich

[bob turner]

UPS paid a claim for me - paid my rates (not cheap) to fix the damage.

[up148]

Actually UPS paid some damage claims on a KEY BB and KEY FEF-3 that I purchased from a well known brass seller in Maine, 6-7 years ago. He sold/sells a lot of consignment items and said he never opened up the package when he received it to make sure it was packaged correctly. Anyway, due to poor packaging the boiler of the BB was bent along with some other damage. Knocked the cab loose on the FEF-3 too.

Since he was the shipper, he had to file the claim. I got a call from an inspector who made an appointment and knowing how this routine goes (from shipping aircraft parts for decades) I doctored up the packing material and told the inspector everything was packed very well. I gave the dealer qualities and abilities he never possessed, but I felt my refund might hinge on this settlement, so my nose grew several feet that day. The dealer got a sizable refund and had the locos repaired and I got my money back. Someone else wound up with some problem locos I'm sure.

I am unaware of there being any rules that might apply to a model train item; hazardous materials, yes. A brass train car - none at all.

Actually, you're supposed to have at least 3" of packing material between any item and the sidewall of the shipping box. UPS knows they handle their packages roughly so set up shipping ground rules. My son worked as a loader at one UPS warehouse when he was a freshman in college and it's one hot, dirty, fast paced job. You stop moving for any reason and they ask you why. He worked like a dog on a 6 hour shift, but was well paid so he stuck it out.

I think I can handle the repair, so I'll try it rather than fight a claim. It was a good buy and brand new and they are hard to find. So, I'll keep everyone posted on progress. Thanks for the good ideas!

BH

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Actually, you're supposed to have at least 3" of packing material between any item and the sidewall of the shipping box.

Supposed to.........can't say I've ever seen that amount used by anyone.

[Jay Criswell]

Butch,

Don't try to solder it. The only paint that will withstand the heat is the modern stuff coming out Korea. I'm pretty sure none of these came with factory paint anyway so it's anyone's guess what was used. By the way, the interior isn't supposed to be orange. Foam green, or something like that, is way more correct.

Canopy glue will work just fine for re-glazing the windows (hmmmm, looks just like white glue). I would use JB Weld for the repairs.

Jay

[ScaleCraft]

Actually UPS paid some damage claims on a KEY BB and KEY FEF-3 that I purchased from a well known brass seller in Maine, 6-7 years ago. He sold/sells a lot of consignment items and said he never opened up the package when he received it to make sure it was packaged correctly. Anyway, due to poor packaging the boiler of the BB was bent along with some other damage. Knocked the cab loose on the FEF-3 too.

BH

6-7 years ago...different CEO, different Ferrari....the last time I ever shipped UPS was packed by an official UPS store..locomotive in die cut (original) Styrofoam container, in a box, in a bigger box with at least three inches of packing...they broke the cab off, knocked the domes off, broke tender steps, headlight mount snapped, pilot (cowcatcher) damaged, coupler snapped, and broke three teeth off an intermediate gear on the gear box.

Factory box.
Packaged by a UPS store.
Insured.
"Improper Packaging...claim denied".

I fixed it and shipped it back USPS.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Canopy glue will work just fine for re-glazing the windows (hmmmm, looks just like white glue).

Thought it dried clear though....never used the stuff, but if it works I'd be off to get a tube/bottle

I would use JB Weld for the repairs.

I hesitated to suggest JB Weld as some might have considered to be heretical or sacrilegious,

[up148]

Butch,

Don't try to solder it. The only paint that will withstand the heat is the modern stuff coming out Korea. I'm pretty sure none of these came with factory paint anyway so it's anyone's guess what was used. By the way, the interior isn't supposed to be orange. Foam green, or something like that, is way more correct.

Canopy glue will work just fine for re-glazing the windows (hmmmm, looks just like white glue). I would use JB Weld for the repairs.

Jay

Thanks Jay,

I have some JB Weld for the house I've never used and was thinking about using it.....just hoping someone might suggest some miracle something we've never heard of. I've seen what heat can do to model paint and I really don't need to add that to the problem. I can secure the walls in more locations and then paint over it.

I agree, painting the interior now will be much easier. I need to go back to the A&O website to see if I can locate an interior painting thread by Rick Bacon (believe that is his name) he did on a critter a few years ago. I've never seen a metal seat cushion look more real on a model.

Butch

[up148]

Actually, you're supposed to have at least 3" of packing material between any item and the sidewall of the shipping box.

Supposed to.........can't say I've ever seen that amount used by anyone.

Learned this from our UPS shipping rep when they denied a claim years ago.

I've always over packed my models when I shipped them as I didn't want to take it back due to poor packing. I learned 5-6 years ago from Greg Bergman/Gary Schrader, the absolute best way to ship any model is to wrap the loco (all individual pieces) in tissue paper surrounded by small bubble wrap making a cocoon 3" (at least) thick around the model. Then suspend the cocoon in Styrofoam peanuts in an oversize box. You can ship the factory box in another box, as they are seldom adequate for protecting a model. This way of wrapping is a PITA for sure, but none of us have ever seen any damage this way. I don't use this method for shipping RTR plastic cars or maybe less valuable MG or USH rolling stock, etc., but on anything really valuable or rare, this is the one way to go.

Butch