Boiler Identification

[R.K. Maroon]

This boiler came in a box marked "Overland". The configuration looks familiar -- built in feedwater heater, offset bell, shrouded sand valves, shroud just in front of the cab -- but I can't place it.





Any help identifying this would be appreciated.
Jim

[De Bruin]

J3?

[bob turner]

I am uneasy about making pronouncements - I could be way off base.

It does not look like Overland. It is clear that it is NYC Hudson style, and that sure looks like a Lionel smoke box front.

So I pronounce it darn good scratch-built.

[sarge]

Jim

I believe that to be a Williams NYC J3a boiler. They did a brass boilered scale-sized one, perhaps by Samhongsa but I'm reaching into musty dusty memory on that last bit.

Several extra shells, unpainted, were kicking around in the mid-80s, along with many extra bits; Vince Waterman (the old Trackside Specialties) had the lot. I used that very 700e looking smokebox front to do a couple L3a Mohawk smokebox fronts; take the door off the Williams and filet-solder it to a USH L4b face after turning the latter in a lathe to take the later door detail off. It was reasonably convincing.

I don't know why Jerry did a J3a rather than the J1e of Lionel 700e fame, then copied the latter's smokebox front as faithfully as he did, but it sure made my conversions easier. I did three of them over the years.

[up148]

This boiler came in a box marked "Overland". The configuration looks familiar -- built in feedwater heater, offset bell, shrouded sand valves, shroud just in front of the cab -- but I can't place it.





Any help identifying this would be appreciated.
Jim

Sounds like good theories above and I don't know, but it's definitely not OMI, PSC or any of the mainstream brass imports, as the brass is much too heavy. That hinged smokebox door is really thickly cast and the hinge pin is large too, plus the screwed on bell support. Japanese and Korean builders soldered everything on and sometimes very poorly.

BH

[rrjjf]

I am not a NYC Hudson expert but shouldn't the smokebox front be scalloped at the bottom to clear the pilot mounted air pumps? Williams did not do this on their Hudsons so it may be a Williams.

Joe

[R.K. Maroon]

Thanks for all the inputs. Not seeing the obvious (that is was a J3 Hudson boiler and that it is not OMI quality) is an all-too frequent event for me. I'm used to it though so no surprise there. Here are a couple of photos of a Williams found on the internet:

WIlliams Hudson 01.JPG (146.05 KiB) Viewed 6846 times

WIlliams Hudson 02.JPG (145.62 KiB) Viewed 6846 times

Here is the front and back on the mystery boiler:



Not a good match at either end, but perhaps Williams made more than one version? It otherwise does not strike me as a scratchbuild. What a strange thing to see a brass model built to look like a toy (in particular, the pop-open smokebox front).

Jim

[bob turner]

There are etched portions, and the boiler bands are soldered way neater than anything I do. But it is such a complete mis-match for the Williams photo - either IMP or scratch. Can you measure the boiler wall thickness? Get a shot of the underbelly? Sometimes the underbelly, or lack thereof, can tell a lot.

[sarge]

I think the one you are showing from the net is 'way later production, perhaps even diecast.

The line of locos we're speaking to were indeed brass, and also included a Mike, a Pacific, a B6, and a Camelback. Though liberal in interpretation with stretched lead truck and pilot, some could actually be had in some cases in both 2rail and 3. Their B6 of that era was pretty decent if I remember.

Not IMP and not scratch; I'm pretty comfortable with brass-era Williams from the 80s.

[sarge]

Here's a link to the earlier one. Perhaps this is a good match?

http://www.scalemodelrailways.co.uk/O%2 ... entral.pdf

BTW, that is a J1e number ( copying the number used by Lionel on the 700e), and calling it a J3 really is arguable, since they mix characteristics between the two.

[R.K. Maroon]

Brian, the one I found was listed as brass. Perhaps later production or modified, as speculated:

http://www.thetraindoctor.com/wbh.shtml

The one you found does look like a better match, at least at the smokebox front. Here for Bob is the underside of mine:



Again, nothing here says scratchbuilt to me. I would measure the brass thickness as requested but I am at work at present.

Again, thanks to all for the inputs. I think this one will go on eBay. I could try to find a replacement smokebox front but I have way too many projects as it is and, in truth, I am not all that enamored with the NYC Hudson (heresy, I know, but like any catchy pop song it's been played to death for me).

Jim

[sarge]

When you measure it, you'll probably find it a respectable thickness. These were solid and simple shells, rather uncharacteristic compared to the scale offerings of the era.

If you were to ever want a Hudson, they (edit, "they" being Williams) have far too many compromises in fidelity to be worthwhile. I personally love the Hudsons, indeed most NYC steam, but take no offence. Your tastes and mine are supposed to be different. Grin!

[bob turner]

I like the J1e, but don't care wildly about the rest. I agree - the belly cutout screams "inexpensive import". Those of us who roll our own would never do a C section like that.

I really like the W PRR B6sb, but swear it is 17/64 scale. I have a W Dreyfuss Hudson, and do like its looks.