FIRM GRASP ON THE SITUATION

[G3750]

One should, also, consider the part of the history of the USA that included the millions of immigrants who came from Europe during the 1700's, 1800's, and early 1900's. They came prepared to WORK and to add something of value to the American way of life.

Some went westward and made, with their own hands, houses on a barren prairie, of sod cut from the ground and hand-built into homes.

Some went to cities and worked at menial jobs, lived on pennies, but saved money, and made prosperous lives for their families.

Some broke soil in the Midwest, for the first time, and created farms that fed the rest of the entire country.

Some ranched huge herds of cattle and marched them to slaughterhouses, which also fed the rest of the country.

Some started things like railroad companies, and automobile companies, and gun factories that helped keep travelers and explorers safe, or built skyscrapers, designed new products, earning fortunes in the process.

On and on the story developed of European immigrants moving to America with nothing in their possession but courage, inventiveness, determination, skills and talents, and a determination to be of value to themselves and to the country and their families.

I feel there is a big place in the overall story for those chapters.

My own great-grandparents came here in the 1800's and got right to work. They fit in because they were determined to work, to assimilate, and to fit in quickly. I can recall wanting to learn to speak the languages of both ethnic sides of my family, but being told to continue to just learn "American," as a native-born, so we would all continue to fit-in well.

All the men in our originally immigrant family worked at places like, and many actually in, this steel mill in Braddock, PA. It was hot and hard work. Eventually, all of the men, including my father, were eventually indirectly killed by the conditions of having labored for decades in the mills, but the family prospered.

Well said, Frank.

Nice shot of ET (US Steel Edgar Thomson works)? I think that's the Westinghouse Bridge in the background, too.

The wife and I were married in the church in East Pittsburgh. 30 years ago in July.

George

[MurphOnMillerAve]

Thanks so very much for the kindness of your reply and for its approval.
I believe you are correct about the mill and the bridge. One of them is still present, isn't it.

[Tom Dempsey]

One should, also, consider the part of the history of the USA that included the millions of immigrants who came from Europe during the 1700's, 1800's, and early 1900's. They came prepared to WORK and to add something of value to the American way of life.

Some went westward and made, with their own hands, houses on a barren prairie, of sod cut from the ground and hand-built into homes.

Some went to cities and worked at menial jobs, lived on pennies, but saved money, and made prosperous lives for their families.

Some broke soil in the Midwest, for the first time, and created farms that fed the rest of the entire country.

Some ranched huge herds of cattle and marched them to slaughterhouses, which also fed the rest of the country.

Some started things like railroad companies, and automobile companies, and gun factories that helped keep travelers and explorers safe, or built skyscrapers, designed new products, earning fortunes in the process.

On and on the story developed of European immigrants moving to America with nothing in their possession but courage, inventiveness, determination, skills and talents, and a determination to be of value to themselves and to the country and their families.

I feel there is a big place in the overall story for those chapters.

My own great-grandparents came here in the 1800's and got right to work. They fit in because they were determined to work, to assimilate, and to fit in quickly. I can recall wanting to learn to speak the languages of both ethnic sides of my family, but being told to continue to just learn "American," as a native-born, so we would all continue to fit-in well.

All the men in our originally immigrant family worked at places like, and many actually in, this steel mill in Braddock, PA. It was hot and hard work. Eventually, all of the men, including my father, were eventually indirectly killed by the conditions of having labored for decades in the mills, but the family prospered.

And why would you not think that the current crop of immigrants is any less willing to make the same sacrifices, meet the same hardships headon, and love their adopted country any less. Unless it's about melanin count.

[MurphOnMillerAve]

I did not say, "compared to" or "in contrast to." I made no statement about other immigrants, other than those mentioned that were known personally to me in my life's experience. Rather, I said "consider" the European contribution and presence, historically, which should not be a difficult feat.

Therefore, your attempt at provocation is predicated upon specious "reasoning" and supposition and personal - yours - subjective interpretation. I talked only about that of which I am familiar. I cannot speak about the other immigrants with any of the certainty that I have mentioned in my personal statement about European immigrants. And for that position, you will instigate no guilt nor retraction from me, sir, and certainly no apology. Not one word.

And considering your crack about "melanin," made obviously to be provocative, I will allow myself to assure you that there is plenty of melanin in our family, though none of us have ever considered its presence, minimally or more profoundly, to be a determiner of a work-ethic, or talent, or of a willingness to contribute in positive ways to the larger society or to a family's prosperity. It is curious that you have mentioned it, though, which to me is unfortunately predicated on your part.

Your "position" smacks of histrionics, to me, and will not receive the dignity of any further reply from me.

[rogruth]

Most of our relatives that came to the U.S. in the 19th and early 20th centuries also came in recognized legal and lawful ways.

[HONDO74]

Most of our relatives that came to the U.S. in the 19th and early 20th centuries also came in recognized legal and lawful ways.

The Europeans that migrated to this country in the 1700s and 1800s totally devastated the native Americans. Stole their land,destroyed their culture, killed many of them and put the rest in concentration camp called reservations.

Maybe if they had been xenophobic and pique they would have survived what happened to them.....

[rogruth]

Most of our relatives that came to the U.S. in the 19th and early 20th centuries also came in recognized legal and lawful ways.

The Europeans that migrated to this country in the 1700s and 1800s totally devastated the native Americans. Stole their land,destroyed their culture, killed many of them and put the rest in concentration camp called reservations.

Maybe if they had been xenophobic and pique they would have survived what happened to them.....

As I have said earlier on MTJ, we descendants of white Europeans can do no right in the society of today.

[MurphOnMillerAve]

Most of our relatives that came to the U.S. in the 19th and early 20th centuries also came in recognized legal and lawful ways.

The Europeans that migrated to this country in the 1700s and 1800s totally devastated the native Americans. Stole their land,destroyed their culture, killed many of them and put the rest in concentration camp called reservations....:

I think we have all thought about that, HONDO. But what is the solution? Should we all say, "Sorry" and go home? But "go home" to where exactly? And even if that were to be adopted as a solution, what about the mixed-race/ethnicity among us - to where would they return?

Warfare and conquest is the history of the whole world. Of course, that does not make it right nor even acceptable, but what can one do, now?

Even the so-called Native "Americans" (I put quotes because I wonder who made-up that term? Did they say it was acceptable, fitting, and a good idea?) themselves waged war against each other in the various regions. How would that be rectified? To where would each of their nations return for their origins and non-warfare-gained land?

Of course, I respect the point you have made, HONDO, and as I said, I think we have all thought about that, but what is there do to, or what should be done, about it, now? I honestly do not have any idea. What do you say could or should be done about the situation?
Murph

[HONDO74]

Murph
Unfortunately we don't have a time machine where we can go back and fix all the ills the people have wrecked on other people. If we have learned anything from history is that we should not repeat the same mistakes that were made in the past.

Muammar Gaddafi quote

We have 50 million Muslims in Europe. There are signs that Allah will grant Islam victory in Europe—without swords, without guns, without conquest—will turn it into a Muslim continent within a few decades.

Speech (10 April 2006), quoted in New York Sun

[rogruth]

Without the so-called mistakes "we" have made the world would be so different we would not recognize it.
It could be worse. Maybe our actions were not as bad as "we" think.

A lot of writers have made money writing stories about what if. Some call it fiction, Way to many what ifs.