First Imported "Big Steam"?

[R.K. Maroon]

I sent these photos of a Kemtron Niagara to John Fisher, and he wondered out loud if this model was the first imported "big steam". I don't have imported brass on my radar screen much so I have no idea.





This model appears in the #6 catalog, which came out in or around 1965.

Any thoughts?

Jim

[Carey Williams]

Hello Jim

Nice looking Niagara ..International was importing much earlier ... IMP working with many individuals using their kitchen table as the workshop ...some had real talent building models ...others well ... if the Challenger can be considered "big steam" ....for 195.00 and a 2 week wait one would show up at your doorstep in 1952 ... later the price would rise to 225... IMP must have put their "best" talent on the Challenger's as they are many cuts above much of the IMP line .. please link and scroll down for some stunning photos of my two examples ...both of which run well ..happy with the 48" radi curves ....but note great differences between the two in quantity ... their was a great deal of stealing of the best talent at IMP in 1955 in the forming of KTM ...if I got the right names

Cheers Carey

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17347&hilit=challenger+international

[E7]

KTM = Katsumi Mokeiten

What about something built for a GI?

[E7]

Hello Jim

.. if the Challenger can be considered "big steam" ....

I think it is fairly safe to call a 4-6-6-4 BIG steam.

[bob turner]

I bought my Max MT-4 in 1962, and I know the SPMogul, while not really big steam, was available before then.

[Carey Williams]

Is a Hudson big enough ? 1932 imported from Germany by Marklin . see link for riveting photos of engines with rivets
Cheers Carey

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/topic/mar ... can-hudson

[R.K. Maroon]

To paraphrase Potter Stewart, I can't accurately define what is and what is not "big steam", but I know it when I see it. Most would agree that a 4-8-4 is big steam. Most might also agree that a 4-6-4 is not. For me I might use the introduction of the Lima Superpower 2-8-4 as the threshold to big steam, which makes Berkshires and Mountains on the borderline. Having said that, I would say just about any articulated would count based just on size. So the IMP Challenger would count (Limited as it was in availability and questionable as it is in regards to unit-to-unit quality). On the other hand, by my thinking the IMP Hudson does not count:



Disclaimer: The views expressed are the opinions of the author and are not presented as unassailable facts.

Jim

[ScaleCraft]

good thing you said "just about any articulated"....

[De Bruin]

I would say just about any articulated would count based just on size.

SC Dave's Skookum example immediately sprang to mind too when I read this, "Big" being a relative term though, Skookum is plenty big in real life,
as a model though fairly small in comparison to a trunk line articulateds. Likewise those awesome Uintah tank mallets.

On the other hand, by my thinking the IMP Hudson does not count...

Agreed, the IMP Hudson's "Lionel-ish" proportions, exaggerated by the fact the prototype was a 42" gauge steed, just look weird.
opinion- while gauge has something to do with the impression it's not always the case as in South African 4-8-4's, various Garretts, those large-ish Argentine 42" gauge 4-8-2's built for the Belgrano network by Henschel, Skoda etc.

No disputing your Niagra's an early biggee though

[ScaleCraft]

I have some photos of that 2-4-4-2 while being rebuilt in the engine shed north of Tillamook. Did a good job for something that laid in a field for DECADES in pieces. Guys told me a LOT was missing and had to be fabricated. Guess was some railfans decided souvenirs was the rule of the day.

[bob turner]

Does it run? Looks great!

[R.K. Maroon]

Bob, I have recently adopted a "one model on the workbench at a time" rule, so I have not inspected the Niagara yet (which I found at the Southwest O-scale show in OKC in October). This is a hard rule to enforce, but I am convinced from experience that it's really best.

I know that somebody imported those really cool Uintah tank engines, but I'm betting they weren't "early". Were there any other small articulated steam locomotives imported in O-Scale?

And how about this: If we would call it a "small articulated", can we agree that it's not "big steam"?

Jim

[E7]

Just my personal opinion and purely arbitrary, but I wouldn't call anything with less than 8 drivers "BIG".

Rich

[R.K. Maroon]

Need to be more specific, less Dave (ScaleCraft) claims his 2-4-4-2 as big. How about "twelve drivers (articulated) or eight drivers (non-articulated)". And, again, to avoid a trap, this is a necessary but not sufficient requirement. Not many would claim an 0-8-0 "big steam". But there are exceptions everywhere.

These are cool (opinion)

[bob turner]

That has always been a charmer. I may do one like that after I do the Dockside - as in a long time from now.

Dave - does Skookum run under steam?

Big steam? My Lima Berk is diminutive - I have Pacifics bigger - it is K-Line, and seems small, but they tell me it matches 1/4" scale plans. I vote for Mountains and bigger . . .