decriminalising hard drugs

[HONDO74]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around 54 percent of the murders are done by family members. Philly has had 400+ you cant get me to believe that 208 were done by family members.

Why not. Seems perfectly plausible and history supports it as well.

Show us the data and the link to where you came up with out of 400 murders 208 were done by family member ?

Neil is pulling figures out of his ***

Philadelphia police commissioner says department not taking 'foot off gas' as city records deadliest year since 2007
https://6abc.com/2020-philly-homicide-r ... s/6799716/

Mayor Jim Kenney says economic factors are also leading to the violence spike and that police officers are doing their best.
"They are patrolling our streets trying to get between( combatants that are dead set on killing each other.) If you couple in the pandemic and economic crisis and the rising gun violence it's all just a toxic stew," said Mayor Kenney.

On Wednesday, the mayor and city council will announce a lawsuit filed against the state to allow for legislators to enact stricter gun laws within city limits.

Chicago has the most stringent gun laws and it has not stopped young black men from killing each other

[Neil]

FBI. Bunch of guys in DC? Those are national figures and Robert ran with them. First of all it’s half of murders where the relationship is known between victim and murderer. And one quarter are family members. Three quarters are people whom the victim knew, including family members. Many murders are never solved. That said there is no reason to think that in the unsolved murders the relationships are that much different. You gun nuts just refuse to accept the fact that guns are used to kill family members, neighbors, girl friends, not criminals in almost all cases

[Neil]

I do realize that when those communists at the FBI come up with something you gun nuts don’t like they are not to be trusted. Since Trump became president it’s a Republican principle that facts need to conform to political ideology rather than reality. Too bad for your future since facts are always more useful than political fantasy.

[Neil]

Read it for your distrustful selves. Then go back to dreaming about Republican fantasies about how Biden is beating down Trump by illegal voting, for which there is not one shred of evidence. Indeed the Republican party has become the party of criminally insane lies about reality. Instead of facts, our President and his assorted fascist accomplices present the typical aggrieved gasbag macho posturing we've come to expect from the criminally dishonest and ignorant nitwits in charge of our country . Just try not to misquote me and then accuse me of lying, another great Republican strategy. Remember who invented the big lie? The Bolsheviks and Nazis, so you're in good company.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/20 ... icide-data

"In 2011, in incidents of murder for which the relationships of murder victims and offenders were known, 54.3 percent were killed by someone they knew (acquaintance, neighbor, friend, boyfriend, etc.); 24.8 percent of victims were slain by family members. The relationship of murder victims and offenders was unknown in 44.1 percent of murder and nonnegligent manslaughter incidents in 2011. "

[Neil]

"Show us the data and the link to where you came up with out of 400 murders 208 were done by family member ?"

Since that was Robert's misinterpretation of what I posted from the FBI, I cannot show you the data for what I never claimed. Neither did the FBI.

If you're not horrified that a quarter of murders for which the relationship is known involves family members, I suppose it might well take a half of all murders to get you agitated. Perhaps even agitated enough to finally realize that NRA's total fantasies about handguns protecting the potential victims. The NRA lies through their teeth because they like to play with guns. The truth hurts. Handguns are primarily used to kill family members and for suicides, almost never to kill criminals.

[Neil]

"Chicago has the most stringent gun laws and it has not stopped young black men from killing each other."

Couldn't possibly be because the adjacent states to Illinois have lax gun laws? Just a wee bit? The country is so awash in handguns that nothing we do short of confiscation is going to have any affect. New York has very stringent handgun laws and has very low homicide rates despite having lots of angry young men of all colors. Nothing much to do with the local laws I'd guess and everything to do with local culture and circumstances.

But go ahead and advocate every one having a handgun to defend themselves from imaginary crime, so that whenever someone gets really mad at their wife, there's a quick way of settling the issues. .

[HONDO74]

Couldn't possibly be because the adjacent states to Illinois have lax gun laws? Just a wee bit? The country is so awash in handguns that nothing we do short of confiscation is going to have any affect. New York has very stringent handgun laws and has very low homicide rates despite having lots of angry young men of all colors. Nothing much to do with the local laws I'd guess and everything to do with local culture and circumstances.

.

Neil you were aware that you can't buy a handgun out of state. It's against federal law. If they are getting guns from out of state they are not getting them from legal gun shops. They are usually stolen from a burglary. Guns get smuggled in the same as hard drugs. And Chicago is awash in hard drugs. And it's the drugs that the young black men are killing each over. Look at a map of Chicago where all the street killings are taking place. It's the same places year after year

Laws don't matter to these people. Criminals don't pay any attention to laws, And it would be an impossible task to change the culture. These Chicago drug dealers can make a thousand dollars a day selling drugs. Lori Lightfoot said she was going to fix the problem when she was elected. She has been at it for over a year and it's getting worse.

And you did notice that the bad boy all use handguns. No AR 15s. They can't hide those. I with Biden when he said get a double barrel shotgun to defend you home. It's one hell of a defensive weapon. Someone breaking into your home won't survive the blast from a double barrel shotgun. And it's your word against theirs about what happened. The only mistake Biden made was telling people to go out on their front porch and fire a warning shot to scare the bad boys away. Don't do it.That's against the law and you will go to jail.

That reminds me I think I saw a nice legal 18 inch double barrel shotgun at the pawn shop. These are called coach guns. We use those in cowboy action shooting. One of my favorite hobbies.

[robert.]

"Since that was Robert's misinterpretation of what I posted from the FBI, I cannot show you the data for what I never claimed. Neither did the FBI"
No misinterpretation sir. I cut a pasted your quote. More people are killed by family members than criminals. I still believe we have an illegal gun problem in this country and i have no answers on how to change that.

[Neil]

"More people are killed by family members than criminals."

That part was correct. You were doubting the "half" killed by family members. That number was incorrect. And it only refers to murders where the relationship is known. You said you couldn't believe it. Well, that's your choice.

The FBI is the source of that inference about family members vs. criminals, but they do not state that in my quote. The number was about a quarter, not half. The half was people who were known to the victim but not family members (e.g., girlfriends, neighbors, etc.). This is a fact that has been known by criminologists for decades. Very few legal handguns in private hands are used to kill criminals. They are used by criminals to kill family members and acquaintances, murder being a crime.

And I couldn't agree with you more that illegal guns are problem. But the problem with legal guns in such large numbers as we have is that they are (1) useless to prevent crimes pretty much, (2) used by toddlers to kill themselves or playmates and (3) frequently stolen during burglaries and thus become illegal guns. If we had fewer legal handguns we'd have fewer illegal handguns. We are awash in both.

[HONDO74]

Here is a little item to back up Neils claim about family members killing each other.

Documentary: Minnesota man murdered by siblings felt threatened before grisly end
The horrific case is explored in Season 2 of Oxygen’s true-crime docu-series 'Killer Siblings'
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/m ... ngs-oxygen

Anoka County authorities later revealed Hawes was shot in the chest by a crossbow at his Andover home, beaten over the head with a baseball bat, run over, and then taken across the state where his charred remains were discovered at a farm owned by his brother Andrew Hawes, 36, the outlet shared.

Previously, blood was found on Hawes’ driveway, his home’s exterior and on the undercarriage of his car when he was reported missing.

But no handguns or guns were used. A crossbow. A baseball bat and a vehicle were the weapons of choice..

And here is an interesting statistic... More people through out history have been killed with a Crossbow than GUNS That includes all the wars

[Neil]

"More people through out history have been killed with a Crossbow than GUNS That includes all the wars"

Almost certainly wrong, but I'm sure you have those reliable crime and war statistics from 1400 and 400 AD . Bullshit artist award to you for a really, really well done totally misleading post. But entertaining in its own way. If totally bogus on every level.

[HONDO74]

"More people through out history have been killed with a Crossbow than GUNS That includes all the wars"

Almost certainly wrong, but I'm sure you have those reliable crime and war statistics from 1400 and 400 AD . Bullshit artist award to you for a really, really well done totally misleading post. But entertaining in its own way. If totally bogus on every level.

The crossbow predates the invention of gunpowder and guns by hundreds of years.

Interesting how you keyed on on that and not the fact that no guns were used in the family killing.

Have you noticed a lot of articles about mothers killing their young children and they don't use guns. The articles usually state the mother suffered from mental illness. I just can't imagine a mother killing her own children.

[Neil]

"The crossbow predates the invention of gunpowder and guns by hundreds of years."

Yes but the world population (mainly Europe---no crossbows in African and the Americas throughout history) was strikingly smaller and armies were much smaller. Tens of millions of people died by firearms in WWI and WWII, which is more than the entire population of the world during much of the crossbow era.

There is nothing remarkable about homicides committed by means other than firearms. But it's hard to kill 60 people from a Las Vegas hotel room with knives, hands, large rocks and crossbows. Granted that scum Timothy McVeigh managed to kill dozens of children with a bomb and handgun restrictions wouldn't have helped prevent that tragedy. Needless to say, he wasn't a leftist .

[HONDO74]

"

There is nothing remarkable about homicides committed by means other than firearms. But it's hard to kill 60 people from a Las Vegas hotel room with knives, hands, large rocks and crossbows. Granted that scum Timothy McVeigh managed to kill dozens of children with a bomb and handgun restrictions wouldn't have helped prevent that tragedy. Needless to say, he wasn't a leftist .

That hotel had very lax security That's why they are being sued for millions of dollars He brought those weapons in over a couple of days and no one questioned what he was doing.

And 3000 people died in one day in New York when some peaceful Muslims flew a couple of planes into the twin towers.

Ilhan Omar of Minnesota said “My people did something,”

[Neil]

Omar said no such thing. Stop reading the fascist news media and you will be better in touch with reality.