Decals vs Dry Transfers

[E7]

I was reading the latest in Maroon's Tridaily topic a rather than post there I thought this might be worthy of it's own spot. Any thoughts about decals vs transfers? Ease of use of each type, availability? Anything else? For those of us whose hand lettering looks like a bird flew over the model and let loose!

Rich

[Rufus T. Firefly]

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[sarge]

Dry transfers are nice, but they don't age well. It seems like no time before the adhesive is dried out and the things are useless. I won't buy any unless I have a project to do immediately, and I won't buy them secondhand sealed or not.

They require a flat finished surface, precisely the opposite of decals/waterslides.

Positioning them is critical and at times a real pain in the arse. For tiny letters on the ends of cars where the relief is pronounced, like corrugate ends, I'll get some unprinted decal paper, put the dry-transfer to that on a nice flat worksurface, then seal with clear lacquer and use it as a decal.

Modern waterslides are a joy to use, thin film, easily sucked down with my little hoard of Champ fluid. I need to experiment with some white vinegar, for the Champ fluid reeks of it. I have to think vinegar is a component.

Old unused decals can be refreshed with a coat of gloss lacquer and the airbrush. Too thick and it soaks into the paper, so rattlecan clear might not get you there.

I use both, but come down in favour of waterslides, especially the modern ones, myself.

In the UK, there are transfers that combine the advantages of both. Called "methfix", you cut them out and position them like a rub-on/dry transfer. once positioned and burnished you can pull them off and reposition them if you bugger it up the first time because they don't release from the paper until you hit the latter with methylated spirit (denatured alcohol in America). Then, they let go the paper and are ready to seal with no film. Its really a nice system.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

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[sarge]

Interesting; I've not had that problem. How many years is your "no time" or is perhaps related to the humidity and/or other storage conditions? Might be good to put them in a sealed environment for storage. Might have a spare container about....

Doesn't seem to matter when they're already off, bought at a trainshow, ebay, or list. It started with Letraset back in the '70s for me. Anything the age of CDS is no longer worth the risk; haven't found a set useable in years of that stuff. Woodland did various lettering sets in colours; reasonably long lived for dry transfers but now most of mine are off. I seal them and decals for storage, but won't buy NOS or used transfers because they don't go off just for me and I'm not buying someone else's unusable stock unless I want the artwork.

Yes, rough and/or uneven surfaces and/or the unsteady of hands is problematic. Having really good burnishing tools to apply dry transfers is something to be invested in unlike decals/

Uneven surfaces and compound curves are the norm. Thats the real shortcoming of dry transfers. The register is fine on a nice two-dimensional piece of backing, but most are so stiff they cannot adjust over three-dimensions without bits of lettering coming off during the process. Better to make a decal you can adjust after application.

My favourite burnishing tools are made with nylon rod or wood and a pencil sharpener.

Burnishing dry transfers is a pretty brutal process, for example on number boards on brass diesels you'll punch it out long before the number lines up and adheres. Working around details is just a bitchy exercise with them.

Nope, for what I do its decals rather than dry transfer. You can't adjust the latter and, if they're still good, bits pop off on first contact. They are nice on a flat surface with no little detail bits anywhere nearby, really nice in fact. Anything more complex and it all goes pearshaped really quickly whilst waterslides give me excellent result in that jungle.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

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[healey36]

Anyone tried print-your-own decals? I picked up some decal paper, but it came with no instructions. My understanding is you can print them using an InkJet printer, than seal them with some clear overspray, than they're ready for use. I also see they sell clear-background paper and white-background paper, necessary since you can't print the color white (or can you?).

[sarge]

I never have, simply because white would be what I use the most of by far. I understand the old ALPS could print white, but found the easiest thing to do with best consistency was to get in touch with Highball Graphics. His custom work is really nice and of more than reasonable cost for the work involved.

I've been using Microscale and K4 decals for the most part lately. At one point I was very used to Champ, but these last two have me so spoilt that, when I did a D&H car for Art Selby last winter with a Champ set he supplied, I cursed the thickness of Champ's substrate! It was like throwing wax-paper at it after all these years.

If you suspect decals will "explode" as Rufus mentioned, thats when an overspray of gloss clear before use will very often make them nice and usable again. After the first one nuked, they would have gone into the spraybooth. GRIN!

[healey36]

I have used some K4 lettering sets on refurbed tinplate in the last few months, and they work very nicely. Of course I have the advantage of applying them to gloss paint. I was unfamiliar with K4, but their discovery has been fortuitous. They are useful for replicating stamped lettering from those early days.

I have a few small sheets of the Euro decals you describe. They almost look like dry-transfers on the paper, but the rather cryptic instructions clearly indicate the use of water. I'll have to get you to show me how to use them sometime when I'm up there.

[bob turner]

Bob Anson can do black and white. I don't know what printer he uses, but he was more than happy to do my un-prototypical but Lobaugh-accurate Mobilgas decals.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

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[E7]

Some great stuff! thanks guys!

[DaveJfr0]

Had never really considered DT's had a lifespan, similar to decals. Thanks guys.

Guess I'll need to start using up my Clover Leaf ones soon. Don't have much left from CDS that I care about anymore.

[DaveJfr0]

I've been using Microscale and K4 decals for the most part lately. At one point I was very used to Champ, but these last two have me so spoilt that, when I did a D&H car for Art Selby last winter with a Champ set he supplied, I cursed the thickness of Champ's substrate! It was like throwing wax-paper at it after all these years.

I bought maybe a dozen sets of K4 decals, only to find that his decals use rather thick film compared to anyone else and finding it hard to make his film "melt" into the paint and disappear. Unfortunate because of his selection. Tichy's also has a really nice selection, but has equally poor if not worse decal film/paper. Tichy's instructions even say to use white glue to adhere them.

[De Bruin]

Hi Dave, glad to see you posting here again

.......I bought maybe a dozen sets of K4 decals, only to find that his decals use rather thick film compared to anyone else and finding it hard to make his film "melt" into the paint and disappear.....

Interesting comment, conversely I've been quite happy with the K4 substrate(film) once I got the hang of handling it as it likes to ball up during application, usual applied over gloss coat then resealed after applying setting solvent and drying. Very happy with the results, though again for me tricky to handle.
I'm doing a pair of FA's in NdeM using K4's, I will post the results.
Pete