Ukraine rumors

[Mitch]

I don't think my question is all that deep. I just want to see a coherent reason that underpins my friend's feeling that Putin was justified. I do try to watch a little Fox, but it is incredibly difficult.

Just one reason that doesn't require 30 minutes to understand.

Bob, as you may know, Putin is ex-KGB and survived the fall of the USSR. He's never gotten over that and his recent (2014 forward) conquests on the perimeter of Russia proves that. The plan was to capture the capitol and quickly install a puppet government, an objective not yet achieved and possibly may not be. He wants to re-establish the USSR and be Supreme Leader. He's just not quite as smart nor as ruthless as Stalin was. Russian pipelines flow oil and natural gas across Ukraine, and for that, Russia must pay Ukraine transmission fees, costing Russia money that they wouldn't have to spend if they took Ukraine. Ukraine is huge in wheat, exporting 35% alone to the US, and more all over the world; just part of the Ukrainian economy. Ukraine produces much more, and does well with exports. Russia basically has only gas & oil, (and weapons) to depend on, and without that, they'd have no economy at all. So, you can look up all the facts, and you may find many reasons why it would be advantageous for Russia to seize Ukraine, but there's NOT A SINGLE REASON where it would be JUSTIFIED, and you can tell your friend that for me. Is he a fan of the Socialist State?

[healey36]

I would agree with most of that, Mitch, except the notion that "Ukraine is huge in wheat, exporting 35% alone to the US". Ukraine is big in wheat, but the U. S. imports very little wheat, and what it does import is overwhelmingly sourced from Canada (in 2021, $397.8 million of $399.0 million total wheat imports, as seen in USDA recap below). My understanding is that Ukrainian wheat exports to large extent go to the Middle East and Africa.

https://apps.fas.usda.gov/gats/PrintBicoReport.aspx?&PT=C&MYT=F&EY=2022&EM=02&EMName=February&RT=P&PC=0015AT&SY=2017&IP=Y&PG=BICO-HS10

[bob turner]

Yep - there are "libs" who try to understand others' viewpoints. In the olden days that was almost the definition of liberal.

One reason I come here is to understand viewpoints not congruent with mine. But this time I was hoping to elicit a viewpoint - hoping to find a poster who could outline just exactly how a conscious human being could justify that invasion.

Arguing with my friend is not in the cards - he is truly a nice person and extremely talented - but his education is almost 100% right wing talk radio. Face to face conversations with those folks doesn't work. So we keep it light and remain good friends.

I am just trying to understand . . . I do not want to convert anyone.

[robert.]

There is no legit reason. If you want a half a$$ reason. Think back to 1962 Cuban missile crisis of 1962. Even this is a stretch as far as casualties go. it's a far stretch to compare the two at this point. Putin went to far. He needs to leave power in a body bag. If he has hardline supporters they need a bag and tag also. He need to be gone within the next week. Before he can make thing worse.
Taking large yacht anf huge sums of money is not working. At this point only death will work.

[bob turner]

We cannot justify crimes by saying others have done it. Even if the "other" is us. It just doesn't work that way.

[robert.]

[HONDO74]

[HONDO74]

We cannot justify crimes by saying others have done it. Even if the "other" is us. It just doesn't work that way.

CRIME..... Something that has always intrigued me is how we can make rules about how we can kill people. You can't use this but you can blow them all to H E L L with a bomb. And collateral damage is another interesting term. And how about rules of engagement....

[Rufus T. Firefly]

We cannot justify crimes by saying others have done it. Even if the "other" is us. It just doesn't work that way.

CRIME..... Something that has always intrigued me is how we can make rules about how we can kill people. You can't use this but you can blow them all to H E L L with a bomb. And collateral damage is another interesting term. And how about rules of engagement....

Rationalization.

[HONDO74]

Russia blockading Ukrainian grain is a 'real war crime' - EU
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61864049

There is a little bit of a glitch to this story as I have read in other BBC articles that elaborate on it.

The Ukraine mined all the harbors to keep the Russians out.

This is the one that could turn into a major conflict in Europe. between the EU and Russia
Ukraine warns of war: Kyiv warns of Russian escalation during EU bid
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61861327

Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky has warned Russia will intensify its attacks on his country in the coming days, as Kyiv awaits news on its bid to join the EU.

Members of the bloc are expected to decide whether to award "candidate status" to Kyiv later this week.

The move would begin the process of Ukraine's accession to the alliance, which could take years to complete.

But Mr Zelensky warned the decision could see Russia step up its attacks.

Speaking during his nightly address from Kyiv, the Ukrainian leader said he and his advisors expect "greater hostile activity" from Moscow, but told citizens that his forces "are preparing" and are ready for any renewed assault.

He pledged to push forward with what he called Ukraine's "historic" ambitions to join the EU, which were endorsed by the bloc's executive, the European Commission, last week.

But now the decision rests with the European Council, a body made up of the leaders of Member States, which will meet at a summit in Brussels on Thursday and Friday.


All it would take is for Russia to set off one strategic nuclear bomb and Europe will go into full panic mode.

[HONDO74]

Ukraine war: Iran plans to supply Russia with combat drones, US warns
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62130725

Iran plans to supply Russia with potentially hundreds of drones for its war in Ukraine, some with combat capabilities, a US official has said.

White House National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan said the information the US had suggested Iran was preparing to train Russian forces to use the drones.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Ukraine war: Iran plans to supply Russia with combat drones

Not sure this is a rumor; Putin is meeting with Turkey and Iran.

However , it is a bit amusing - Russian military machine has to buy drones from Iran?

[HONDO74]

Ukraine war: Iran plans to supply Russia with combat drones

Not sure this is a rumor;

I didn't want to start a new thread about the Ukraine. this one will work.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

I didn't want to start a new thread about the Ukraine.

This one is more than enough.

[up148]

Agreed. Not that it isn't important, but one thread is enough.